love the point about supporting small business — yes you’re paying a lot of money for a jawn, but you’re also supporting a small business and that wins 100% of the time for me.
HELL YEAH. You’re in a tough spot where I know you want to support smaller brands (maybe not shops in this case) but the conversion / shipping rates kill you.
Wonder if there’s a market for cool Australian brands….wonder if you can make sense of that…
Yes, there's a handful of Australian/NZ labels that need more spotlight. I haven't had the chance to cop from the ones I'm obsessed with yet, but when I do, I'll be sure to do a full write-up on them!
Well put. The pool metaphor is relatable and the fit + price-first mindset feels accurate. Most people just want to look good without overthinking it, and that’s totally fine...I also like how you treat Zara/mall brands as gateways instead of punching bags, everyone's gotta start somewhere, but hopefully that gateway leads them to more thoughtful consumer choices...
You hit the nail on the head about going in-person to a store. In pre-#menswear times, a lot of stores had a gatekeeper-y feel to them, the exact attitude that you're calling out here. And that still exists in the luxury world, where you feel like you're getting a visual credit check the moment you walk in the door. But over the past couple of decades, the vibe has shifted such that it's the "deep end" guys working in these places, showing the "shallow end" guys how to swim a little deeper.
Yeah I remember when I went to Drakes to buy the cost, the guy who was with me spent a good amount of time of helping me think through how that coat would fit over a sweater, a denim jacket, a suit. It helped me decide to get a size that was a bit roomier and it’s exactly what I needed, but I otherwise would have sized down and regretted it. Walking into that store felt intimidating but walking out it was such a good feeling to feel like I wasn’t spoken down to, and if anything I was taught to be more aware of what to consider when buying anything that’s $$$$$$.
A few years ago that might not have been the case. But I love that it’s easier to walk into a store and feel that healthy dynamic happen.
I really enjoyed this! I think, because of how social media is now, there’s this expectation to know a lot from the get go. It’s too bad people are shamed for not knowing versus being encouraged to dive deeper. Then when it translates offline, people would rather not talk to anyone at all.
I hope this reaches a wider audience. I’ve shared this post with some of my male friends. Very insightful from a woman’s perspective.
Nick Grant & Jon Moy were the goats for me. Their writing styles shaped how I write + reading their stuff made realize I could like clothes as a straight guy hahaha
I’m curious, where would you place Uniqlo within the Menswear Pool? As an outsider to fashion, like you mentioned material, fit and cost matters most to me but I solved that problem with Uniqlo. Since there a better option?
Oooo! Uniqlo is interesting. I think the ‘pool’ has some flexibility you know? It’s not super rigid. When it comes to Uniqlo, great basics at very affordable prices. Their price has crept up slowly over the last decade, and quality has seemingly gone down. I’ve gotten to talk to a few people who were shopping Uniqlo in the mid-2010’s and they’re still wearing those pieces today.
Overall the trend of raising price / lowering standards seems to be the case. I think you’ll find nice things at Uniqlo (their selvedge price point was so accessible for example) but there’s always going to be much better stuff out there for a bit more money.
In my humble opinion, If things fit good, they feel good. That can go much further than the discrepancy of a cheap vs an expensive piece any day. I'd always rather shop small or second hand, but when I was starting out, my initial statement would often guide decisions.
For sure! I think part of the convo is the difference between something fitting good and fitting GOOD. You can find that second hand but takes some work. I know guys who’ve put on a t shirt that actually fits for the first time and they’re blown away by it. And again, sometimes it’s not even cheap vs expensive, just finding a good shirt on sale or clearance.
I have a pair of Grenson boots I bought in 2018 that I'm kinda mad at because I put Vibram Commando soles on them and now I'm like, shit I can't buy new boots until the 2030s now.
Isn’t that the beauty of America??? Democracy is crumbling, people groups are being discriminated against and physically hurt (or killed), our government is filled with pedophiles
I feel like the big missing on ramp here is secondhand. As somebody who buys a lot of secondhand clothes for less than H&M prices with unique details at the high level... I also have secondhand products I pay a lot for, and I also pay a lot for new products (despite getting plenty for free). The details don't matter to the average dude, but they matter to me because I've been there, seen it, felt it, owned it, styled it. And normies have a general fear of shopping secondhand. What if it smells? All that jazz. But once they start, they keep going.
There’s going to be a followup with exactly that. Original write up was 3,600 words, cut to 2,900, cut to 2,300. Didn’t feel like there was any room to properly discourse the whole secondhand market without sacrificing some real major points. The angle is going to be more… ‘you can get more for less if you’re willing to work for it.’ Would love to pick your brain on some of those angles when the time comes if you’re open to it.
great read as always. I think one big thing I took away from this, when your boy asked about the named Zara x Levine collab, asking is he a big deal. I think for an accelerated few its a matter of sink or swim in lets say the shallow 2 ft. depth of the pool, and these few sink far more than swim. Only because one thing missing is that guys tend to (as much as a stereotype can be true) compete or gamify almost everything in life, and the guy that didn't even know that Aaron Levine has been the brains behind huge movements in recent menswear, A&F, huckberry, etc., now is interested because its a named collab with someone who seems important. there's hype, value or status because they own the collab
all of that to say, there are just some guys who get into the shallow end who don't care about details, design, aesthetic, heritage, and just want to get into it for the sport or to flex, the Kith and ALD guys. do you really want to swim in the pool or do you just want to skip to the first place podium?
love the point about supporting small business — yes you’re paying a lot of money for a jawn, but you’re also supporting a small business and that wins 100% of the time for me.
HELL YEAH. You’re in a tough spot where I know you want to support smaller brands (maybe not shops in this case) but the conversion / shipping rates kill you.
Wonder if there’s a market for cool Australian brands….wonder if you can make sense of that…
Yes, there's a handful of Australian/NZ labels that need more spotlight. I haven't had the chance to cop from the ones I'm obsessed with yet, but when I do, I'll be sure to do a full write-up on them!
Wait I’m texting you about this I want to know about these brands
Well put. The pool metaphor is relatable and the fit + price-first mindset feels accurate. Most people just want to look good without overthinking it, and that’s totally fine...I also like how you treat Zara/mall brands as gateways instead of punching bags, everyone's gotta start somewhere, but hopefully that gateway leads them to more thoughtful consumer choices...
I appreciate this a lot.
I really wanted to make sure it never felt like punching down. Getting more people educated > making fun of people.
You hit the nail on the head about going in-person to a store. In pre-#menswear times, a lot of stores had a gatekeeper-y feel to them, the exact attitude that you're calling out here. And that still exists in the luxury world, where you feel like you're getting a visual credit check the moment you walk in the door. But over the past couple of decades, the vibe has shifted such that it's the "deep end" guys working in these places, showing the "shallow end" guys how to swim a little deeper.
Yeah I remember when I went to Drakes to buy the cost, the guy who was with me spent a good amount of time of helping me think through how that coat would fit over a sweater, a denim jacket, a suit. It helped me decide to get a size that was a bit roomier and it’s exactly what I needed, but I otherwise would have sized down and regretted it. Walking into that store felt intimidating but walking out it was such a good feeling to feel like I wasn’t spoken down to, and if anything I was taught to be more aware of what to consider when buying anything that’s $$$$$$.
A few years ago that might not have been the case. But I love that it’s easier to walk into a store and feel that healthy dynamic happen.
I really enjoyed this! I think, because of how social media is now, there’s this expectation to know a lot from the get go. It’s too bad people are shamed for not knowing versus being encouraged to dive deeper. Then when it translates offline, people would rather not talk to anyone at all.
I hope this reaches a wider audience. I’ve shared this post with some of my male friends. Very insightful from a woman’s perspective.
Shoutout Four Pins. Who’s your favorite writer?
Nick Grant & Jon Moy were the goats for me. Their writing styles shaped how I write + reading their stuff made realize I could like clothes as a straight guy hahaha
Jon Moy is the GOAT, I still have some of his Four Pins columns saved and revisit them occasionally.
Jon Moy, the legend 😮💨🙏
As a fellow graduate of Four Pins U, Moy is the only answer
Fantastic article. A&F tee sadly has the only fit I like- this has however convinced me to do some more research on my next pair of shoes.
Feel free to reach out if you ever need any recommendations!
This is the best article I’ve read about menswear here on Substack.
Thanks for putting this to fruition.
This newsletter is unassumingly 1000% worthwhile. Mariano Leonczik, I think that in the menswear pool you shifted to 5ft deep.
We all need a point in time where a brand unlock all the rest of the industry to us. For me that was Zara. 😅
Wow I love this so much
I’m curious, where would you place Uniqlo within the Menswear Pool? As an outsider to fashion, like you mentioned material, fit and cost matters most to me but I solved that problem with Uniqlo. Since there a better option?
Oooo! Uniqlo is interesting. I think the ‘pool’ has some flexibility you know? It’s not super rigid. When it comes to Uniqlo, great basics at very affordable prices. Their price has crept up slowly over the last decade, and quality has seemingly gone down. I’ve gotten to talk to a few people who were shopping Uniqlo in the mid-2010’s and they’re still wearing those pieces today.
Overall the trend of raising price / lowering standards seems to be the case. I think you’ll find nice things at Uniqlo (their selvedge price point was so accessible for example) but there’s always going to be much better stuff out there for a bit more money.
Great step forwards towards the end of the pool.
This is a very nice post! I love the highway image :D
In my humble opinion, If things fit good, they feel good. That can go much further than the discrepancy of a cheap vs an expensive piece any day. I'd always rather shop small or second hand, but when I was starting out, my initial statement would often guide decisions.
For sure! I think part of the convo is the difference between something fitting good and fitting GOOD. You can find that second hand but takes some work. I know guys who’ve put on a t shirt that actually fits for the first time and they’re blown away by it. And again, sometimes it’s not even cheap vs expensive, just finding a good shirt on sale or clearance.
I have a pair of Grenson boots I bought in 2018 that I'm kinda mad at because I put Vibram Commando soles on them and now I'm like, shit I can't buy new boots until the 2030s now.
No no this is America — you can buy ✨as many boots as you want✨
Frrreeeeeeedooooooommmmmmm
Isn’t that the beauty of America??? Democracy is crumbling, people groups are being discriminated against and physically hurt (or killed), our government is filled with pedophiles
But we can buy as many boots as we want 😎
😵💫
I feel like the big missing on ramp here is secondhand. As somebody who buys a lot of secondhand clothes for less than H&M prices with unique details at the high level... I also have secondhand products I pay a lot for, and I also pay a lot for new products (despite getting plenty for free). The details don't matter to the average dude, but they matter to me because I've been there, seen it, felt it, owned it, styled it. And normies have a general fear of shopping secondhand. What if it smells? All that jazz. But once they start, they keep going.
There’s going to be a followup with exactly that. Original write up was 3,600 words, cut to 2,900, cut to 2,300. Didn’t feel like there was any room to properly discourse the whole secondhand market without sacrificing some real major points. The angle is going to be more… ‘you can get more for less if you’re willing to work for it.’ Would love to pick your brain on some of those angles when the time comes if you’re open to it.
Sure, sounds good.
great read as always. I think one big thing I took away from this, when your boy asked about the named Zara x Levine collab, asking is he a big deal. I think for an accelerated few its a matter of sink or swim in lets say the shallow 2 ft. depth of the pool, and these few sink far more than swim. Only because one thing missing is that guys tend to (as much as a stereotype can be true) compete or gamify almost everything in life, and the guy that didn't even know that Aaron Levine has been the brains behind huge movements in recent menswear, A&F, huckberry, etc., now is interested because its a named collab with someone who seems important. there's hype, value or status because they own the collab
all of that to say, there are just some guys who get into the shallow end who don't care about details, design, aesthetic, heritage, and just want to get into it for the sport or to flex, the Kith and ALD guys. do you really want to swim in the pool or do you just want to skip to the first place podium?
my 2 cents as someone in the 6ft deep end.
Oooooo I see your thoughts. Like sometimes it might be that they’re looking for the right trend / person to connect with. Interesting.
Exactly, intention is important